Mervin Hernandez is a WordPress enthusiast turned professional from New York City. He’s been an active member of the WordPress New York City Community since 2011, has attended more than a dozen WordCamps and has been an organizer and volunteer for meetups and Camps as well. Mervin is presently managing a Meta project tackling WordPress admin notifications workflow upgrading. And he is the director of client solutions for rtCamp USA, which is one of the WordPress VIP gold partner agencies.
- Twitter: @hrmervin
- Slack: hrmervin
- Teams: Community, Core
- Website: https://mervinhernandez.com
- Website: https://rtcamp.com
- Favourite Wapuu: NYC Wapuu
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Christina: Hello! and thanks for joining us. Today I have the pleasure of introducing you to Mervin Hernandez. Mervin is a WordPress enthusiast turned professional from New York City. He’s been an active member of the WordPress New York City Community since 2011, has attended more than a dozen WordCamps and has been an organizer and volunteer for meetups and Camps as well. Mervin is presently managing a Meta project tackling WordPress admin notifications workflow upgrading, and he’s going to tell more about that in a minute. And he is the director of client solutions for rtCamp USA, which is one of the WordPress VIP gold partner agencies. Welcome Mervin!
Mervin: Thank you. Thank you. Hello. Hello, everybody.
Christina: How are you today?
Mervin: I’m doing fantastic.
Christina: Alright, I have a lot of questions for you just from your intro. But first, I really want to know more about this meta project.
Mervin: That’s a great place for us to start talking about contributing.
Mervin: So let me try to do the project justice and we are still forming quite a bit of it ourselves. So we’re, we keep revising the goal and the vision of it. So Here’s where we are today.
Mervin: In short, everyone that has been around WordPress for even a little while, you have inevitably come across some kind of a WP admin notice that is just a little too persistent. It’s either trying to tell you to review a plugin. It’s trying to tell you to update Jetpack or add some kind of an add on to WooCommerce. Or if you were lucky enough to get it in Black Friday, this past year in 2019. You saw the Yoast upgrade notice for Black Friday sale. So the WP admin notice vocabulary hasn’t really changed in many, many versions. So we’re trying to do something about that. That’s a really big, hairy, audacious goal. There’s so many people that the WP admin notices touches. And it would require plugin developers, theme developers, users to define with how many notices, what kinds of notices and how they want them delivered. So we’re trying to we’re trying to set the groundwork for all of that, for a better way to deliver notices to the right people in a more in a more pleasant way that is less obtrusive, and a lot more efficient. So moving forward, we want to give developers the tools that they need to just take care of admin notices in a much nicer, much nicer way. So we’re working on that whole project.
Christina: That sounds good.
Mervin: Hopefully that hopefully that explains it better.
Christina: Yeah, that sounds pretty good. I know I’ve signed into some dashboards. And the whole screen is just covered with notices.
Mervin: Oh, me too
Christina: Some I can delete and some I can’t. And yeah, so that’s good to know somebody is working on it.
Mervin: I have friends who tell me “Oh, I keep all those notices around because they remind me that I have something to do”. I could not do that. Because like that is half the real estate of my screen that is just taken up by one notice after another, right?
Christina: And if you just do it, then you don’t need the reminder anymore, cuz it’s done.
Mervin: Right. Well, different philosophies. They’ll get to it eventually.
Christina: Yes, exactly. So what is that an official team project?
Mervin: That is it’s just a make WordPress meta project. It’s alive. It’s in the make channels. We’ve had meetings since Oh, gosh, what was it? I think August or September is when we started gathering feedback from the community at large, so it’s available for everyone to follow, chip into, comment, make requests or recommendations of what they wish this feature to do. If you go to make.wordpress.org, you can search for my name, I think it’s also under the hashtag of “feature notifications”.
Mervin: you can take a look at what we’ve got going on with the get the requirements gathering document and also the comments that are brewing in the in the make track.
Christina: Nice and that’s under the meta team then.
Mervin: Yes, it is under core core.
Christina: It’s under core. Okay.
Christina: Okay, good. Good. Sometimes the teams get confusing.
Christina: Great. All right. Now, you also mentioned or I mentioned in your intro, which you gave me so technically you mentioned you are an active member in the New York City WordPress community for meetups
Christina: and Camps right?
Mervin: That’s right. I think my first volunteer Camp for NYC was 2014 or 2015. And since then I’ve been involved in some small or big capacity: helping with the organizing team, volunteering on the Camp itself. Certainly in the meetups on a regular basis, you know, funny. I have never spoken at a meetup. But I’m I’m a frequent flyer as a helper at the help desk,
Mervin: So, yes. Just been quite involved in NYC in one way or another.
Christina: How big are the WordCamps in New York City? I’m assuming it’s just one.
Mervin: Yes, once a year we do the the WordCamp NYC and they typically run in the three to 400 person attendance
Christina: That’s pretty good
Mervin: I think that’s, that’s been pretty consistent for the years that I’ve been involved. It’s been around around that many. And we’ve got some we’ve got some ideas of how to hopefully grow it and offer some creative opportunities for professionals to perhaps have maybe a half day or full day, right before the potpourri of sessions comes in for the weekend.
Christina: Nice. When do you guys have a normal time of the year that the New York City Camp goes?
Mervin: Yes, we have been holding NYC Camp in between August and September over the last few years. And I think that early fall dates tend to do well for us. We try to navigate all many of the other Camps that are happening. I know Philly, kind of beat us to the punch to one of the dates that we like, which is like mid late September, but we’re we’re looking at those dates here for this year in 2020 as well.
Christina: Okay, great. And the meetups. I’m guessing New York City’s pretty big, although I’ve never been there. But I’m guessing there’s more than one Word- WordPress meetup in the whole area.
Mervin: Yes, we have the general WP NYC meetup. We’re very fortunate to have a partnership with Microsoft. So they allow us to host our big meetup at their learning center, right by the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Really, really nice venue. Sometimes they throw in some treats.
Christina: Always nice.
Mervin: That’s always fun. So that’s the general meetup. We have sessions. Like, like the other meetups, some of them cover development, some of them cover content. Many of them talking about business and how to leverage WordPress and various contexts. So that’s that’s the, I guess that’s the big meetup. We also have a Manhattan Help Desk. That depending on venue availability, because office space and event space in Manhattan is quite expensive.
Christina: I can imagine
Mervin: So depending on availability of a venue, we have a Manhattan Help Desk once a month, often. And then we have a Brooklyn Help Desk. It’s quite got quite an active following. And I participate as a helper there pretty often as well.
Christina: And I’ll bet, pardon me how big to those usually tend to be person wise?
Mervin: Sure. So both of the help desks run in the 20 to 30 people average and I’d say about three or four helpers. So myself and a few friends from the NYC community, Victor Ramirez, Timothy Jacobs, Ali Lyons are among the frequent helpers. So we float between the Manhattan and the Brooklyn Help Desk and those that’s our average attendance. And then for the general meetup, we have a bit more capacity. So because we have it at one of the really nice classrooms at Microsoft, we can accommodate between 40 to 50 ish people. And the rsvps always fill up to this. That’s, that’s always a good thing. And we’re always we’re always trying to accommodate more if we can just try to squeeze in from that waitlist.
Christina: mm hmm, that sounds pretty great. All right. So how long would you say you’ve been contributing to WordPress?
Mervin: To WordPress in some capacity I’d say that that those 2014 2015 Camps was when I really started to get plugged in. I’ve been around WordPress, since about 2009. I was working with a nonprofit that was using WordPress at the time. And that’s when I started to really get familiar with the tool, start to see its potential, you know, started breaking things as I went through the, the typical learning curve and experimenting and breaking things as
Mervin: as is how you learn.
Christina: That’s the way you do it
Mervin: But it wasn’t until maybe 2016 2017 that I really started to get involved with learning about ways that the community and how to really help organize and help on a regular basis at the meetup and then start to get more responsibility with planning Camp, Camp NYC and then start to be on the organizing team and have a more active role in making this amazing and really fun Camp happen on a regular basis.
Christina: Awesome. And so we’ve talked about community team because that’s the Camps and the meetups and core team. Are there any other teams that you contribute to or have contributed to in the past?
Mervin: I think that about covers it. I’ve been, I’ve been somewhat selective because I’ve I’ve many of the things that I put my name to and that I say that I’m going to do things I’m I try to do a really good job. And of course, I often drop the ball and miss deadlines and adjust expectations but I’ve been pretty selective in things that I think I can be helpful I I think I have some experience or a perspective, that’s that that’s kind of worthwhile to plug into what’s been going on. There’s a few areas that I still aspire to contribute more into: accessibility, both the make team and also that topic at large in the community. And I think I’m, I’m working on what it is that I can bring to the table from what I’ve learned, what I’m learning, and what I’m working on on a day to day basis, both professionally and, and personally because I, I still do a bit of developing on my own. And that allows me to keep my keep my hand on the on the pulse of WordPress really, really actively not just from a management perspective and just kind of working in the flow. So those are those are really the areas that I felt I’ve I’ve enjoyed, and I’ve brought some thing really valuable to the teams that I’m working on, especially now with this core team. I’m like facilitating the project management aspect of it. And I’m really taken to that side of business, that side of delivering solutions for WordPress. And as I as I have the time as I have the desire to expand my my, my role in various areas of WordPress, I’ll, I’ll keep looking for opportunities of where I can. I can really plug myself into, into what’s going on and make a good difference and in whatever I do.
Christina: Sounds like you’re being smart about it. You don’t want to spread yourself too thin and burnout, right?
Mervin: Oh my goodness. I’m not in the in the risk of burning out but I’m definitely spreading myself very thin.
Christina: Which unfortunately, a lot of us do, because we just want to do all the things.
Mervin: I know and all of all of the things are the people that are involved in all these things. I mean, it’s really their fault that I get involved in all this stuff. But it’s, it’s really fun. And it’s really challenging because I’ll tell you briefly about this. This core project is like I’ve never led a core project before. And Jon hasn’t an either Jon Bossenger who’s kind of the lead for the project. And so, the both of us are, are bantering, it’s like, Okay, well, we we want to do a good job. We want to keep gathering the insight and the perspectives that we need from everybody. And I’m glad I stepped up to the plate and said I would get involved in something like this because it’s such a different way from my day to day, both in my independent projects and also working at rtCamp and delivering, you know, big big projects with many stakeholders and many critical decisions that have to be made. I’m thinking differently. Still in the WordPress context, I’m thinking differently on a day to day basis with what I’m doing professionally. And what I’m doing for the community. It’s, it’s still all coming into the bigger picture of WordPress and making it better, supporting the platform supporting the people around it. But managing and being involved in a core project, it requires a different set of skills and a different set of perspective and mindset, than, okay, this is the solution that we need to deliver, when I’m talking to enterprise clients on what it is that they need done on a timely basis. You know, put in service tested QA right away, kind of okay, kind of an approach.
Mervin: Yeah, so are you learning as you go a little bit?
Mervin: Oh, a lot. quite a bit. And, and, and as I, as I’m learning how to contribute into a mergeable solution for WordPress as part of the core project, I’m talking to people and I’m telling him like, I feel like I have too many cooks in the kitchen in terms of wanting to build this, this plugin this feature, in a good way. But then they told me he’s like, well, maybe it’s not too many cooks in the kitchen. Maybe you have the right number of cooks in the kitchen. And that’s what the recipe calls for. It’s such a different it’s such a different mindset and in, in in the most positive way I can I can say, it’s, it’s taking a different part of my brain to do that stuff. I like that.
Christina: Cool. That sounds really great. Well, I think it sounds like you were the right person for the job and I’m glad you’re working on it.
Mervin: Yes, we’ve got many people that are involved and pouring into it as well. So it’s gonna take, it’s gonna take a lot of different a lot of different stakeholders to, to really bring about the the way to do notifications well. And that’s going to get accepted not just in the core but accepted in future plugins, future themes, future integrations with WordPress, and it’s going to touch a lot of people. So we’re, we’re taking our time with it, we’re trying to do it right. And it’s, gosh, I don’t I don’t, I have a rough goal of 6.0. But I think that that might be too soon.
Christina: I was just about to ask if you had a timeline for it.
Mervin: I, I’ve been throwing around 6.0 kind of haphazardly but I think 6.5 might be more, more reasonable for an MVP,
Christina: Right. Sounds good, at least it gives you a goal to reach for right? And if you have to adjust, so be it.
Mervin: Exactly. What is it a aim for the stars and settle for the moon? Something like that?
Christina: Something like that. That sounds right. Where are we here? So your contributor origin story, I think you kind of started talking about this anyways, was the first WordCamp that you went to, would you say?
Mervin: Yep, Oh, absolutely. It may have started out with me finding a way to get into Camp for free.
Christina: Been there,
Mervin: which is a great perk. Anybody who’s considering coming to Camp, that’s that’s the way to get a free ticket is if you have the opportunity to volunteer and if there’s an area of helping make Camp happen that interests you certainly do that apply to volunteer and we’ll let you in at no cost. But,
Christina: We’re almost all started struggling to get enough volunteers.
Mervin: Of course,
Christina: we rarely say no.
Mervin: I know we accepted. Gosh, I don’t know what we accepted it was like something like 30 or 35 applications for New York City. And I think our volunteer organizer, Lisa Leid, she did a great job of like giving everyone an orientation. And it really takes the pressure off of like the organizers who’ve been involved in planning it for a few months at least, and really takes the pressure off of them to have more volunteers then we perhaps really need just in order to make it run smoothly, and for nobody to feel like Oh, they have to do everything.
Christina: Yeah, less stress.
Mervin: Yes, absolutely. I can speak for myself leading for the very first time in 2019. I felt like I had a great organizing team. But on the day of we had just the right amount of volunteers. No, there’s always a moment or two where it’s like, Okay, well, we need one extra person here or there. But overall, it flowed really, really smooth. So, I’d say that was a very good entry for me was to find the opportunity to volunteer at Camp to be a frequent attendee at the meetups and see what ways I could help put that together and social events and, and kind of just participate in some small capacities and other Camps. So yes, the happiness bar was was probably where I really started to get my footing and starting to talk to people.
Mervin: Great. Have you been to a Contributor Day with all of those WordCamps that you’ve been to?
Mervin: Not all of them but yes, I’ve been to a few. I know US had a Contributor Day this past year in St. Louis.
Christina: Yeah, we did
Mervin: we’ve had we’ve had like Contributor Hour at Camp NYC.
Christina: Oh, that’s great.
Mervin: Um, so yeah, we’ve had a few opportunities where I’ve had the chance to go learn about the different teams. And if I haven’t been able to really dig my, my teeth into something at the time, it certainly was, was presently in mind when the opportunity came around for me to get involved with this core project.
Christina: And how would one of those Contributor Hours work?
Mervin: So in NYC because we are so strapped for space and time, we didn’t quite have the wherewithal and the capacity to host a whole Contributor Day. So what we did is we had a Contributor Hour and we gave everyone an overview of the make channels. Here are the different areas that you can contribute into WordPress, way beyond code. You do not have to be a coder to chip into the community. Yeah. So everyone I was I lead that Contributor Hour a couple of years ago, and I was the whole Camp. I was like, hey, do you know about make WordPress, um, the whole Camp, I was recruiting for the for the Contributor session, and I was able to give the overview and then we were able to answer a couple of tickets, support tickets, kind of on the fly together, just as an example. But speakers sponsors like everyone that had not known what it meant to contribute, and to be a part of the make channels. They were able to come get an overview, see how to answer a ticket if they can do that. And get plugged in if they wanted to get involved with one of the channels,
Christina: right, so kind of a bit of a recruitment in general.
Christina: That’s awesome. I’ll have to keep that in mind. All right, here’s, here’s a big question. This is like, what’s the meaning of life? Why Why do you contribute to the WordPress community and project?
Mervin: All right. Yes, that’s a that’s a, that’s a very deep question.
Mervin: I like before I even felt it was kind of a duty as a as a professional in the WordPress space. Because that did come into into my motivation. Once I started to be successful in delivering good solutions and started to talk to companies about jobs in WordPress. I saw that it was an opportunity to learn by doing by actually being involved in making something happen around the community. So for me that was, that was a reason to, to really get involved, get to networking with folks. And in however I could, given my skill set at the time, start to help with the meetup here. And that opened up a lot of doors, it opened up relationships that are still growing today. business relationships in both directions. I mean, I’ve got colleagues here in New York City that refer projects to me and I have projects that are over my head that I work with them on. And I came about because I was I was involved. I was available to help host I was available to record sessions at a meetup because I was helpful and thoughtful in how I approached working with with clients and doing the business of WordPress. So those that all came into what allowed me what motivated me to to contribute and now as a professional in the WordPress space, I feel really lucky to be a member of the rtCamp team. Because so many of our, our engineering and developing team members contribute in to core on a regular basis I think for the last 16 or 18 versions of WordPress. rtCamp has been among the contributors into into the WordPress core. So my company makes it a point to have a culture of giving back into the platform that we love that we’re passionate about that we see enables so much business success for us and for our clients, so that that brings about kind of the duty aspect of it is like if we’re able to be subject matter experts for our clients and do innovative things and RND new ways of, of doing something with WordPress or around WordPress, then we need to bring that back. If it’s able to help the core if it’s able to help some satellite part of WordPress, I think we need to, it’s our role to bring it back.
Christina: I agree. And it’s nice when you have that culture in the company that you’re working with. We have
Mervin: Oh totally.
Christina: Yeah, that’s one of the things I really like about working with WebDevStudios. We have that same thing. And actually, this Friday is our Five for the Future day. So I’m really excited.
Mervin: There you go
Christina: There you go
Christina: Cuz I have a lot to do!
Mervin: I when when Matt mentioned that it’s like whoa, whoa, hey, listen, Matt. We donate a lot more than 5% we just got to start tracking it.
Christina: it’s good. It’s nice that they’ve got that company page now where you can, can get your company out there and show all the people that are in your company that are helping contribute. And it’s a it’s a good step to take. And it also helps showcase that not everybody is a coder, a developer needing to do code.
Mervin: Yep, I will, I’m still probably a few years away from contributing into core. And I’ve got some great role models, core contributors here, right here in New York City, who are are good friends and good colleagues. And I treat them like rock stars because it’s really cool to, to kind of know those people and to see the rigor that they that they put into reviewing stuff but I’ve forgotten lost my train of thought, yes. It’s really great to be a member of a company that has that as a as a big value of what we do. It’s, hey, we’re working in this platform. Let’s poke at it. Let’s make it better. And let’s bring back what we what we’ve learned about it.
Christina: Yeah, exactly. And it just, everybody’s better for it.
Christina: All right. Now you get to brag a little, what is your proudest contribution?
Mervin: Well, because I really enjoyed it. I’d say my proudest contribution was leading NYC this past year 2019. I was incredibly lucky that the community here in New York City has some outstanding members. And it was it was a real pleasure to lead Camp and I think we had a really good one. Both from the feedback I got from my fellow organizers, from so many of the speakers and past organizers who came and enjoyed the event and said everything felt really smooth. Nothing felt rushed or no fires looked terribly out of place.
Christina: That’s always good to hear
Mervin: and I fooled them all. So yeah, I I’ve heard how, how big of a job it is to lead and it is and I take it very seriously. But having a great team made it made it fun. So yeah, I was I was really proud that we put on a great Camp. A lot of people from out of town had a great time. And and yeah, that’s what That’s why I’m very excited to be leading it again for for 2020. It’s because I had such a great experience. I hope I, I did the job justice. And I hope to have all of the same team and a few more new people to come join our organizing team this year because it really jelled. It worked really, really well. And I hope I can do a great job again.
Christina: I’m sure you will, I have confidence in you. All right, getting towards the end here. We talked, I guess you’ve mentioned a couple of ways that people can get involved with either WordCamps or going on the make, but what advice might you have for new contributors?
Mervin: For new contributors? I would say don’t be shy. There are so many things in the community. at large that folks in any capacity will likely find a group that they can get plugged into. And for all of the reasons that I’ve mentioned it, it’s going to help you grow as an individual that uses WordPress, either professionally or as a casual blogger, you’re going to get so much out of being a contributing active member of the community. So if your passion is to create content, design, pick out fonts, you’re going to find a team in design. If, if you like to put together social events. Look at getting plugged into the meetup you can create you can create a Camp organizing team, you can create a special meetup around a social event or tag along some kind of a technology related activity that’s happening in your area and bring WordPress to that to that venue. So there’s, there’s a place for everyone. And there’s a lot of opportunities for you to pour into a community that’s going to give you so much back. So I’d say if you’re thinking about WordPress, if you like, any part of WordPress, you can certainly get plugged into into the community in some way.
Christina: And to your point about if you’re shy, still try to jump in. Most of us are introverts and have our shy moments. So we all understand. it’s a good community for that.
Mervin: And and if you if you only talk to one person and just talk a little bit, as like Hey, what’s your favorite theme? You know, there’s, there’s there’s no pressure. It’s such an open and welcoming community. Across the board. I I’ve been very fortunate to talk to people of many different walks of life and I’ve never felt out of place and hopefully I’ve never made anyone feel intimidated or, or anything like that by being, you know, a little bit a little bit not shy and trying to talk to everyone and make them feel welcome. So yeah, it’s just, it’s just fun. It’s a good social and professional activity to do together.
Christina: And you already have something in common that you know, because it’s WordPress.
Mervin: Exactly. Like if we have nothing else I was like, Okay, so what what’s next for WordPress? Talk Talk something tech.
Christina: Yeah, exactly. Is there anything else that That we missed so far, but you want to talk about in regards to contributing.
Mervin: Did you want to ask me about my Wapuu collection? Hanging up on my wall.
Christina: That was my next question. Yeah. No, you know, I’ve got to ask. It is my favorite question even though it’s unrelated to contributing. So what is which Wapuu is your favorite Wapuu and you’re allowed to have more than one if you want.
Mervin: So I the name is escaping me right now. But I met someone in St. Louis, who had three or four lanyards full of Wapuus. And I’m I’m pretty much got my one lanyard. That’s that’s filled up. And yes, I’m going to be totally biased. There was a Wapuu. One of those early years I mentioned I got involved, and it’s a Wapuu with the Empire State Building. That is my favorite. There are some fun ones. But that one, because I’m from New York City holds holds a special place in my heart. Actually, I’ve got a mental note to, to put it in the budget with Central this year to hopefully have this one of the swag items this year is to design a new Wapuu for 2020 New York City. So I don’t know what landmark we’re going to pick or how we’re going to design it. But I would really like to bring a new Wapuu from NYC this year.
Christina: Nice and get some pins?
Mervin: stay tuned.
Christina: Is it the pins that you’re planning to get with them too then?
Mervin: Yeah, yeah. Why pooping? Yes.
Christina: Awesome. Save me one.
Mervin: Hopefully you get to come.
Christina: Yeah, that would be awesome.
Mervin: I’ll buy you a bagel
Christina: but I’m more I’m closer to the west coast and all of the east coast ones. It’s just so far away and harder to get to.
Mervin: WebDev isn’t WebDevStudios based in Philly?
Christina: Well, in a way, that’s where the CEO lives, but there’s no actual head office, we’re all remote. So yeah, although I guess that means do we have somebody in New York? I’m not sure. I can’t remember now. But yeah
Mervin: I think I’ve met a few team members that were in Pennsylvania. So that’s what I thought that
Christina: Yeah, there. There’s a couple others that live in, in there in and around there, too. So it’s very likely,
Mervin: Chances are our date is going to fall, either the week before or after Philly camp in 2020. So maybe dog ear those two weeks.
Christina: I will consider that Oh, that I see what you’re getting at there. Two camps for the price of one trip.
Christina: I like the way you think. If my video hadn’t shut off, you’d see the wheels turning in my head right now.
Mervin: I try.
Christina: All right, the final final question, how can people find you online if they want to get in touch?
Mervin: Awesome. So I am on Twitter a lot and that’s where, gosh, so much of the WordPress community just socializes and has these off the beaten path conversations on Twitter. So my my handle is hrmervin. I also have mervinhernandez.com and that’s a that’s a passion project for Mervin this year. I love WordPress. I use WordPress in so many contexts with clients. I do not blog on a regular basis, but it is. It is one of my big, big goals this year is to put up a couple of sentences a week, and it’ll probably be something like a little mental review for me is like, Okay, I’m working on this. I’m learning this. You know, I wrote 10 lines of code this week. That might be the extent of Mervin’s blogging, just giving you fair warning. So mervinhernandez, mervinhernandez.com. And you can find me on Twitter and there’s I’m really active on Twitter a lot. So that’s, that’s the best one.
Christina: Okay, great. And we’ll have the links for those in the show notes.
Christina: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Mervin. It was great getting to talk to you and know you a little bit. I think I saw you in passing at WorkCamp US this year. But I never got a chance to come up and meet you.
Mervin: Alright, there’s a lot of people
Christina: there are. And I will meet them all one day No probably not.
Mervin: Well, it’s been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you giving me the chance to chat and brag about all the different things I’ve been involved in and I invite anybody that’s, that’s been listening and been thinking about getting involved in any, any and all of this. We need contributors in so many ways in WordPress. So whether you get involved with this project in your local area, just take a look around and connect with folks. So glad to have you.
Christina: And thank you for everything that you do in the community, Mervin.
Mervin: Welcome. Thanks.