Malcolm Peralty Episode 8 cover

Episode 8: Malcolm Peralty

Malcolm Peralty is the co-founder of PressTitan, a WordPress services company for small to medium sized businesses, and joins me from his home office in Kingston, Ontario Canada.


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Christina: Hello and thanks for listening to WP contribute. Today I have the pleasure of introducing you to Malcolm Peralty. Malcolm is the co-founder of Press Titan, a WordPress services company for small to medium sized businesses. And he joins me from his home office in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, a fellow Canadian. Welcome.

Malcolm: Thank you so much for having me.

Christina: Do you want to tell us a little bit more about yourself?

Malcolm: Well, my story with WordPress is pretty long. I’ve been using it since version 0.72, which came out about 17 years ago. I graduated from a computer networking community college program right at the height of the tech crash. And so I was like, Okay, well now what do I do? Because I’m definitely not getting a job. And anyone that knows Canada or especially Ontario Nortel was a pretty big company in Ottawa. Right. And they had basically just sacked a whole bunch of people. And I remember going in and putting my resume down and saying, you know, they have all these Nortel engineers who have been doing this for years. So I had to find something else to do. And I decided to start writing online and kind of stumbled into WordPress, as I you know, tried to build my own CMS that was horrible. I don’t recommend doing that. And then yeah, I fell in love with WordPress and I’ve been using it ever since.

Christina: Wow, that is a really long time. You are my not my you are the person that I’ve interviewed who has used WordPress the longest. That’s the right way to say that. Awesome. So have you been contributing to WordPress for a long time?

Malcolm: So yeah, I would say that early on I wrote for blogging pro which was actually on the WordPress news dashboard for a while.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: Back when it was first sold to Blogging Network the company I was working for I got to write stuff with that I used to co host the original original in quotations, original WordPress podcast with Charles Strickland, way back in the day and then I co hosted a bunch of episodes of WordPress weekly with Jeff Chandler and I have contributed to some plugins I developed some themes back like before WordPress 2.0. I was the support technician for rocket genius for Gravity Forms for a couple of years. I’ve spoken at some WordCamps back like I don’t know a long time ago now. And and also some like new media events about WordPress. So…

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: Yeah.

Christina: That’s neat. What kind of new media events?

Malcolm: So there used to be Blog World and New Media Expo in Las Vegas in kind of the mid 2000s. And I was lucky enough to speak on a few different panels there for that. And then there was Northern Voice was out in BC, and I got to speak at that event as well. So yeah,

Christina: That’s pretty interesting. I don’t think I’ve heard of those.

Malcolm: I think they’re both dead at this point.

Christina: Yes.

Malcolm: I’m not too surprised.

Christina: Yeah. And then you said you spoke at some word camps, any recent or just all from quite a while ago?

Malcolm: Quite a while ago, for most of them. Yeah. Like between 2006 and 2009. Yeah, Toronto, and I did Ottawa, and a few others. And I’ve attended a lot more than I’ve spoken at. And I think attending them is much more fun than speaking at them, in my opinion.

Christina: Less prep work involved, right?

Malcolm: Well and you get to really interact with people. I find that when you have a presentation on your mind, there’s very little else you can do except, like, get ready for that moment.

Christina: And then if you’re like, if you’re first thing, then that’s good, because then you’ve got time to relax. But if you’re kind of in the middle or towards the end, it’s just always on your mind. Right?

Malcolm: Yeah.

Christina: Absolutely. So you’ve mentioned a lot of different things there. So you said you like you did, you’ve done some themes way back when and some plugins. So in terms of the teams that sort of exist now, which ones would you say you contribute to? Currently?

Malcolm: Um, I spend a lot of time on the community forums answering questions. I think that’s probably my favourite thing, jumping on the support forums. Yeah.

Christina: Yeah. Awesome. And so I guess, I thinking like with all the things that you mentioned, too, is there is there one particular thing you can kind of pick or think of point to that would be considered your contributor origin story or is that kind of too too far back now.

Malcolm: I think in terms of kind of the the WordPress community, I’d have to say that, you know, working on the podcast with Charles Strickland would probably be pretty high up there. Like I mentioned, one of the things I did was work on a lot of WordPress themes back in the day. Two funny things with that one was, I don’t really consider myself a designer by any stretch of imagination. So my things were all kind of ugly. But I enjoyed the process of trying to figure out the coding aspect. And there was there was actually a number of users using it, and it was kind of a weird, selfish thing back then. There’s so many more rules about WordPress themes now than there were back then. Back then it was very wild, wild west…

Christina: Right.

Malcolm: And the reason that a lot of different companies and a lot of different people releasing themes were not because they were altruistic and you know, it was like, Oh, I really love making themes and so I’m gonna release these, it was actually like for like search engine stuff, right, you had your link in the footer of all the sites that were using your theme and give you a huge boost, right? And it’s horrible to think about now, but at the time, it was like, the way to get attention was to release these themes. And so I got paid like a fair bit of money to just keep, like, you know, trunking these out there for these different companies and for myself to really kind of, you know, develop all these different themes for these organizations and for myself, and you know, the funny part is people come back to you, and they’re, like, so grateful for what you did. And at the time, you’re like, No, I was just doing it. So I could have a business and yeah, they, they don’t necessarily see it that way. Like a funny thing. It’s actually I just got an email yesterday that someone is using the Phoenix Blue theme from like, over nine years ago, they still have it on their site, but Dreamhost recently contact them and said, You have to update this because like, it’s not secure at all, like into the modern web. Yeah, you can’t keep using this anymore. You have to get rid of it. And the email me like, what theme Do you think I should go with now and I’m like, You know, use any of the 20 whatever’s right that WordPress releases, they’re, they’re pretty safe themes are going to be updated for a while. But yeah, it’s it’s funny how these people continue to reach out and have dialogues about things that you did decades ago.

Christina: Crazy. Is there any particular theme that you’re especially proud of that you had done?

Malcolm: No, they’re all now compared to today they’re all garbage like it again, it’s such a such a different way of doing things now than it was back then. I mean, we’re in a transition period again, right, as we, as we move to kind of this block mentality are these these these, you know, Gutenberg blocks to kind of design sites or even, you know, the advent of page builders, it’s different again, then than what it was even just a few short years ago. So, you know, I, at the time I was, I was happy to work with some really great designers to build some, you know, really nice and kind of quick and easy themes, but, you know, I just I kind of wish they would all just disappear At this point that’s kind of embarrassing. It’s like looking at like a little kid you know photo of yourself with like your hair sticking up at odd angles, right? Like you don’t want anyone to see that photo and yet, right it’s out there on the internet for everyone to see.

Christina: Do they still exist in the repository?

Malcolm: No, thank goodness.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: Oh, no. Yeah, they I don’t think they were actually ever in the WordPress theme repository. Most of the themes that I developed, were actually pre theme repository.

Christina: Oh, okay.

Malcolm: Yeah.

Christina: Interesting. I’m post theme repository in general so I wouldn’t know. But once online, always online, right. So wherever they still somehow you can, you can find them. What about plugins? You mentioned plugins that you’ve worked on too.

Malcolm: Yeah. So Gravity Forms is the biggest one that I worked on. Again, I was doing mostly support and documentation, but it’s also helping with kind of like bug testing and things like that. They have amazing developers there. And I know their developer team has grown a lot since I left but my goodness, the work that I got to do there was some of my most fulfilling in the WordPress world because I was just working with such a great team. I also am listed, I think on the site as one of the contributors to a Vimeo plugin. No, Vimeo, video related plugin.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: Yeah, I was working for 10 Up and I was the project manager of the of the team that developed the plugin. And so I got listed in the credits, which, I mean, yes, I guess but also that seems kind of weird to me. I’m not I’m not a developer by by role in any way, shape or form these days.

Christina: But that’s the whole thing, right with contributing, there’s so much more than just developing that needs to go into all the different aspects, whether it’s the plugins and themes or the core code itself. They still need testers and designers and marketers and support people and all that kind of thing. Right. So you’re still involved.

Malcolm: Yeah, and that’s, that’s only grown. It’s it’s hard because in the early days and kind of middle time of WordPress, it definitely felt very developer centric.

You know, developers, we’re doing a lot of the help guides and tutorials and you know, most people that are reading them are just like, I’m just gonna go hire someone. I have no idea what you’re saying.

Christina: Right.

Malcolm: And so I think we’ve come a long way from that, which is nice.

Christina: Yeah, that’s, that’s pretty good. So what would you say is your proudest contribution? You’ve been doing this for quite a while. So…

Malcolm: Yeah. Some of the more recent stuff that I’ve been doing has has me really pumped. I’ve been working on a learning management system for a like, for-good company called One Million Teachers. And their goal is to teach a million teachers in third world countries like Africa and India and Pakistan, because there’s a huge shortage of teachers. And originally the founder Hakeem wanted to, like set up schools and then he realized that like educational centers, and all these things are great, but have a shortage of teachers. So if there’s no one there to teach these kids Sorry, if there’s no one there to teach these kids, then what’s going to happen? Right? And so he pivoted his idea. And I’ve been working on the LMS system, in partnership with Queens University here in Kingston, to really kind of, you know, help train these people. So I’ve been using Lifter LMS. And, you know, we’ve been using our hosting platform that’s like, a layer on Digital Ocean. And it’s been really great. And I’m learning so much and it’s just such a great cause. So, yeah.

Christina: And what, what types of teachers like general education teachers or any specialists?

Malcolm: Yeah, mostly just elementary teachers, elementary, junior high, things like that. Yeah.

Christina: Just to get them doing, getting some educators there. That’s really great. Nice. Um, have you been to WordCamps lately?

Malcolm: Uh, no. I go to kind of the local WordPress meetup sometimes, but haven’t been to one lately. Yeah, I keep being tempted to go to them, but I keep traveling for other reasons. So I don’t know I would love to go to like WordCamp Miami sometime but every time I’m in Florida, it’s not when it happens.

Christina: Right.

Malcolm: And yeah, I don’t know it. Toronto and Ottawa just don’t have the same kind of community, I guess, in my opinion as like, you know, Detroit, Chicago, you know, some of those other US locations

Christina: And Toronto really hasn’t had, they’ve been sort of spotty with WordCamps lately from what I understand.

Malcolm: They have, yeah.

Christina: And Ottawa is really, Ottawa’s trying and I know they’re planning again for this year. I want to say it’s going to be in July again, if I remember correctly. But I can’t remember. But I know that they are planning if you had interest in trying to make it that way. Yeah. What from the times that you remember going to the Kingston meetups, what are they like?

Malcolm: They’re a mix. So I mean, as WordPress has become more popular and more people have been introduced to software, the like stratification of the user base is just kind of expanded over time. It’s led by a couple of local developers who are very interested in kind of discussing programming and programming techniques. And like, you know, the changes and transformations that are happening in WordPress in terms of the code base and the database structure and schema and all these things. Right?

Christina: Right.

Malcolm: And you’ll see like the eyes glaze over of half the people that are going, I just want to know how to replace my logo on my web page. Right? So it’s, it’s a huge gap and a huge divide. And it’s because we’re such a, you know, we’re not a huge community here of like WordPress developers, WordPress users. And so it’s usually like maybe a dozen or two dozen people, and not necessarily enough to kind of split up into kind of unique groups. And I don’t know if any city has really done that yet where they’ve, you know, they have like the advanced WordPress meetup and the non, you know, non developer WordPress meetup. But I almost think that that should be the case here, because there is a huge divide between the two audiences and not not much in the middle.

Christina: Yeah, I think that’s the case in a lot of places. I know, we sort of have that. We don’t get as many of the developers come out because there are so many people coming out that have more how to use questions that that’s kind of been the way that we’ve gone. And so we don’t get as many of the experienced developers coming out for that. But we’re trying to do some, rather than having it split because again, we don’t have as big a contingent coming out all the time to split it either. But we’re trying to offer some sort of workshops or extra special events that are geared towards more experienced developers to try to bring them back to our community and, and entice them that way. So.

Malcolm: It’s hard, right? Because a lot of WordPress developers kind of work in isolation, whether they’re remote employees off site employees, you know, freelancers, so finding those opportunities for collaboration and mentorship can be can feel quite difficult sometimes

Christina: Yeah, although I know I mean, I’ve benefited a million times over. I mean, I wouldn’t be where I am today if it weren’t for starting off going to the meetups. But then again, I also wasn’t like a super experienced developer when I started going to the meetups. Not that I am now either. So I guess. Yeah, that’d be nice to kind of get some of those people out, more in general. And yeah…

Malcolm: I agree.

Christina: Keep trying. Have you been to a contributor day at all? I know it. It’s been a while since you’ve done a WordCamp. I don’t know.

Malcolm: Yeah. They weren’t a thing back when I did WordCamps initially.

Christina: Yeah.

Malcolm: I attended a couple of WordCamps where they’ve happened. But you know, a lot of the times when I have done a WordCamp over the last few years, especially, it’s been kind of like sponsored by the company I was working for. So my schedule was kind of out of my hands, so to speak, in certain ways. So I haven’t really had an opportunity to. When I did WordCamp Toronto in, I wanna say, like, 2016 2015. Something like that. I did. Attend a contributor day at that point. And it was it was pretty lightweight. I had a couple of other people from 10 Up there. And you know, they had some interesting ideas of programming things they want to do. And I just kind of, you know, did flow control over the things that they were contributing more than I was contributing myself.

Christina: Right. Was it a pretty big contributor day for what you remember?

Malcolm: Ah, no, maybe like, under three dozen people for sure.

Christina: Okay. That’s pretty decent. From just from what I’m what I’ve seen of what WordCamp Toronto does they seem the last time I looked, I think they only had a one day camp and maybe don’t get you think they would have a much bigger more active community. But..

Malcolm: Yeah, for sure. And especially compared to, you know, you think about out west where you are, or even further out west. Some of those WordCamps have much larger, longer camps and like, Vancouver is like a Drupal hub. more than a WordPress hub, and yet it has like multi day camps sometimes. So I don’t I don’t really understand why Toronto isn’t more into that.

Christina: Yeah, although I guess I don’t know maybe sometimes because I know Montreal doesn’t really have a meetup, an active meetup community either. So maybe sometimes with these really big metropolises in Canada anyways, because it doesn’t seem to be an issue down in the States. But they, I guess they’re having a hard time connecting with each other.

Malcolm: Someone should look into that. What’s up with that, what’s up with the Canadian mindset that we can’t all congregate and just kind of make things happen? I don’t know.

Christina: I know, we need to, maybe we’re just too polite to ask if something’s happening. Or if we can lead something. Maybe that’s it. But this is our challenge. Toronto, Montreal, get some meetups and WordCamps going and…

Malcolm: Yeah, I think it would be nice to if they went and stole a little bit more kind of from the BarCamp model. I don’t know if you remember those events, but they were technology events that are a little bit more freeform.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: So you didn’t necessarily have to, you know, do a whole big presentation and speech and know exactly what room you’re going to be and all this stuff you on the day of, they’d have a block of time, you know, that you could sign up for and say, you know, I would like to have a discussion with other people that are interested in X.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: And you would lead it and, and things would happen relating to that. And I kind of wish there was a little bit more of that opportunity at WordCamps going forward where, you know, maybe not, you know, a little less rigidity in the schedule, I guess, would be what I mean, and a little bit of opportunity for people to kind of congregate based on shared interests, rather than having a singular person responsible for leading the entire conversation,

Christina: Right. I think we’ve had, we had something sort of similar as an aspect a few years ago, I think, at our WordCamp in Calgary where we had some sort of more freeform time slots, where we did some different things like fishbowls, and I forget what else. But yeah, nothing where you like sign up or, or do anything like that or but were BarCamps were those independent or were those supported by the WordCamp and WordPress foundation as well.

Malcolm: No, they were independent and they they were pre WordPress. So they were like general, like web technology events. So…

Christina: Oh, okay

Malcolm: You’d go there and people would do speeches or like presentations or like little impromptu sessions about like, you know how to set up a MySQL database, or you know, everyone would come there. And we’d all do like speed tests to compare what the different hosts are doing. And the person would like write down all the notes. And you know, week later, you’d see an article about how, you know, 40 people tested their sites and different hosts and here’s what we got.

Christina: Oh neat.

Malcolm: Yeah.

Christina: You’re giving me ideas for a meetup now. Thanks. It’s hard coming up with stuff all the time.

Malcolm: Hmm.

Christina: Awesome. Um, the deep question of the podcast. Why do you contribute?

Malcolm: On my LinkedIn profile, I say, you know, at this point, I have to have WordPress in my blood. And, you know, I’ve had points where I’ve been immensely frustrated with this piece of software, where I’ve completely disagreed with the direction that is going in. And yet, I can’t help but admit that, you know, it has found ways to lower the barrier for entry. And it has found ways to bring more people to the software year over year over year. And that has, you know, sustained my employment for pretty much the entirety of my adult life. And, you know, I’m extremely grateful of that, and I try to find ways to, you know, involve myself and give back because of that, because I’m grateful for that opportunity to support my family and myself. So, at this point, it’s it’s the cyclical relationship that I can’t escape from. And I don’t really want to, you know, I don’t really want to but it is we are kind of tied together. At this point.

Christina: Right. Yeah, a symbiotic relationship I just learned about I read about sloths, this is so off topic, but kind of not it just made me think of the whole sloth thing, I was, I really like sloths, but only for like superficial reasons right now. And I’ve been getting all these sloth gifts from my family. So I was looking up, you know, the differences between two toed and three toed and all this stuff. And I read about how they have this algae in their hair that like provides nutrition for them. And then, but also like this whole, like bug culture and moths and stuff and that they, they live in one tree and they they do their business at the bottom of the one tree and then that helps like the moths lay their eggs in there. And then it’s like this whole like ecosystem of the sloths and the tree and the bugs and the just kind of all being stuck together and rotating around each other. And that’s kind of what it reminded me of because that’s in my head lately when you’re like…

Malcolm: Yeah, and that 10 years from now, we’re gonna look back on this and you’re gonna have your doctorate in something relating to sloths, and we’re all gonna laugh, because you just kept on going deeper and deeper and deeper and you couldn’t escape it anymore.

Christina: Yeah. So we get stuck into things. Yeah, maybe I’ll make a WordPress blog about sloths. Awesome. Um, what was I gonna ask? Oh, the podcasts that you mentioned before too, from way way back, I think you said was Jeff Chandler. Tell us a bit more about that. Like what? What was the sort of…it sounds horrible? I hate sometimes the way that my mind comes up with the words and then I can’t think of it… what was the point of your podcast?

Malcolm: Yeah, so the first ones that I did were with Charles Strickland, and it was very much kind of, we played very specific roles. He was, you know, very positive about WordPress and I was much more critical about WordPress and we just kind of looked at what was happening in the community was much smaller at that point.

Christina: Okay.

Malcolm: And like commenting on different people. And then when I was doing WP Tavern with Jeff Chandler. He needed that. He was very early on in WordPress, he was very excited about WordPress. He had hearts in his eyes whenever he thought about Matt Mullenweg. And he needed someone to kind of rein them in a little bit and help him kind of look at it a little bit more critically, but also to kind of give a differing opinion on the news of the day with WordPress. And yeah, I really enjoyed doing that. I think, you know, J Trip has done an amazing job as the co host and I’m very hopeful, you know, when Jeff Chandler’s secret project, or Kwazii secret project comes up soon that he’ll revive his podcast series, and I hope to be able to co host a few of those episodes at some point if you’ll have me.

Christina: That’s nice. Do any of those episodes still? Gosh, my brain is not functioning, exist. Do they still live on like the podcast like on iTunes, say…

Malcolm: WordPress Weekly definitely does and it’s still on the WP Tavern website as well. And the old ones with Charles Strickland, I, I found a couple of them but he put them on this old service called Talk Shoe, which was like a podcast hosting website back in the day. And when he sold the WordPress podcast rights to Joost of Yoast. Yeah, yeah, Joost de Vale.

Christina: Yeah.

Malcolm: He like kind of reset that whole thing. And I don’t know if much of it exists anymore. But I still talk to Charles and I still talk to Jeff and those relationships when you’re on and it’s really nice.

Christina: I’ll have to see. Look it up and see if I can find some of the old ones with you on them. And listen to those. That would be cool. Awesome. How what advice would you give for new contributors trying to get into I don’t know, you pick, usually, usually I say for people trying to get involved in whatever, you know, team that you’re holding, but you’ve been involved in so much, so I don’t want to narrow it down.

Malcolm: And I think, you know, because it’s such a big project now, you can really get involved in a facet that you’re interested in. Right? If you have a very specific interest in like font kerning right, like you can go as myopic as you want and there is a group there are some people that will be interested in your opinions on that and I think that’s the most powerful part of how big this has grown right? Any any interest that you have, no matter how mundane there there is reasons for that to be part of this project going forward and how we can kind of build a better version of WordPress. So if you’re if you’re good at video, do video if you’re good at audio, do audio if you love ripping apart documentation do that I think you know, people don’t spend enough time on the support forums. And one of the things for someone like myself or the developers that are like, you know, 50 levels ahead of me or above me, they forget some of the easier things that people still have issues with. And they forget how to answer those questions because they never even run into them, or they don’t even think of it. It’s not top of mind. And so even if you’re new to WordPress, you might already have the solution to some other person’s problem that, you know, someone like me or someone with more experience might not even necessarily think of anymore.

Christina: That’s a really good perspective to put out there that people don’t think about enough. I think you’re right, as the more we get, you know, we sort of focus on the areas that that we mostly deal with. And so anything that’s come before that, not only isn’t top of mind, but because things change so much the way that we maybe would have answered the question might be wrong now too, because the interface has changed or, or whatever have you. So yeah, that’s a great point. So anything else about contributing that we haven’t touched on yet that you want to talk about?

Malcolm: I think another thing that people don’t do enough in WordPress, and I think this is a type of contribution that’s not valued enough is feedback and reviews. I know so many plugin and theme developers, that would just have the best day ever if you took a moment and just let them know what you thought of their product. You know, you downloaded a free plugin or a paid plugin or free theme or what have you. Take a moment, let them know what you thought.

Christina: Yeah, that’s really important. Absolutely, I would, I would definitely be one of those people. I’m the kind of person any kind of extra little, especially unexpected right? Kind words or knowing that that what you set out to achieve actually helped somebody. And even sometimes even better, if it helped them in a way that you weren’t even expecting, right, can also be really great.

Malcolm: For sure.

Christina: to know, that’s great advice. Awesome. Okay. Let’s see here. We seem to have gone through questions quickly, but so well, too. So we’re at my favourite favourite question. It’s Wapuu. So if you had to pick a Wapuu and if you’ve been listening, you know that I don’t think anybody yet has just picked one. So feel free to pick a couple. If you had to pick a Wapuu as your favourite, who would it be?

Malcolm: Alright, so, recently, we actually had one designed for Press Titan.

Thanks to Terence Dale for that.

It’s just like a Wapuu hugging a computer, right? And I like that one. But my absolute favourite is the Gravity Forms astronaut, the moonwalk who that they have?

Christina: Right.

Malcolm: It’s, it’s my absolute favourite. And I don’t know if anything’s ever gonna replace that.

Christina: Can you describe it a bit more for us.

Malcolm: So it’s is a Wapuu in like a full NASA uniform with like a, you know, respirator backpack hugging the moon in front of him.

Christina: Yeah.

Malcolm: And it just looks so cute. I love that one.

Christina: Cool. I will definitely, is the is the Press Titan one available somewhere for me to grab or…

Malcolm: I’ll have to double check. I’ve submitted it to some of those like Wapuu like libraries or gardens or

Christina: right

Malcolm: zoos or whatever you want to call them.

Christina: Yeah. Awesome. I will have to find those and add them to the page. I love showing off all the Wapuus. Soon eventually, I’ll be the I’ll be the their most comprehensive, archival system for Wapuu because I’ll get all the ones that everybody’s mentioned.

Malcolm: At least all the favourites.

Christina: Yeah. They’re all great. They’re all great if you have one that we haven’t mentioned before and doesn’t get mentioned. I’m sure I’ve seen it at some point. I hope and I love it. They’re all fantastic.

Malcolm: What a great addition to the community. It’s such a you know, it’s a cute graphical representation and, you know, your previous interview that you had with Allie, you know, the discussion that she had over, you know, the person in like the Wapuu costume or whatever the stuffed Wapuus and stuff like that, it’s just it makes my my heart you know, grow three sizes or whatever, about this community because we need more positivity like that, and they’re so great.

Christina: We do and I love and I love. I love the whole idea of the collectibles of the pins, right? I mean, if I could have a million stuffy Wapuus I would have those too, I have a couple of them at least being able to have something collectible so that we could have all the Wapuus and I love Wapuu.

Malcolm: Super smart.

Christina: Thank you to the first person who ever created Wapuu and of course, their name is not an on the tip of my tongue at all. But I do know it was in Japan. Thank you to that person who probably had no clue what they were about to start worldwide.

Malcolm: So true. Yeah.

Christina: All right, talk about a contribution. Awesome. Well, how can people find you online if they have questions or want to touch base or

Malcolm: So I have my personal blog at, which is my last name, good luck spelling it. I have a Twitter handle which is @findpurpose. And of course you can feel free to contact me through the company website,

Christina: Okay. And since we have a little bit of extra time, I think do you want to tell us a little bit more about Press Titan?

Malcolm: Sure. So, you know, one of the things that I think people have found very difficult going forward is that a lot of the manage WordPress hosts, you know, they they manage the hosting environment, and maybe they’ll do some WordPress upgrades, but they don’t necessarily hold the hand of the user to be able to do anything with these sites. And as much as we’ve lowered the barrier to entry for WordPress, a lot of the like small businesses especially that I’ve run into, you know, they end up either spending too much money, having a developer do some very basic things or they just kind of leave it stock and hope it’s good enough. And so I saw a little gap there. And I was talking to a long term friend of mine. And we said, you know, let’s, let’s make a go of this, let’s try to help these people and hold their hand and give them that, you know, that premium service where they can always just contact us to do anything, right. If they want their logo changed up on their theme will do that. And that’s not something necessarily that a lot of other people in the space are doing yet. And, you know, we’re getting there. You’ll see more and more of that as this becomes a competitive niche. I think that’s a great thing.

Christina: Yeah. That’s really great. Thanks. Thanks for talking about that. And thanks for joining me tonight.

Malcolm: Thanks for having me.

Christina: This has been fantastic. And I hope that you continue continue to use WordPress and contribute for another what did we say 17 years? Is that how long?

Malcolm: Yeah, something like that.

Christina: Let’s hope it’s around for another 17 years, and going strong and yes, perfect. Thanks so much.

Malcolm: Thank you.